My first DIY modules - starting a Kosmo format build

Ok, second test with the foil was even worse. Didn’t stick at all to the toner on the new vellum with the 3mil setting. Cranked it up to 5mil and ran it through a few more times and it worked better…but still not nearly as well as my first test. So…if anything I think I need higher heat to get a good transfer from the foil. But overall it seems it does help darken things but only at the cost of resolution. So probably won’t go too much further with the foil.

The new vellum though definitely seems to pass more UV. It was immediately obvious when I put it in my diffuser and turned it on as the stray strands of colored fiber in the fabric backing of my contact printing frame lit up much brighter - almost like they did under the undiffused UV. Good sign.

Here’s the two pieces of diffusion on my light box. The original on the left and the new vellum on the right … it’s subtle and less obvious in the photo than in real life…but even in the photo you can see how much more even and brighter the new vellum is:

So I did another set of tests with 1 minute exposures and a new test pattern printed on the new vellum:

Some good and some bad here.

Good - 1 minute differences give us noticeable changes. Bad - most of these have bleed through the printed area. But that’s probably also because we now need a shorter exposure overall. It looks like 3 minutes is just about right. But I do see some bleed starting to creep in. This is also with my light back down as close to the print frame as it can go. So I think I’m going to raise it up just a few more inches to lower the intensity a bit and hopefully get more even light - and then run one more exposure test.

BTW - this is probably the best site I’ve found for this process: http://www.johncon.com/john/PCB/ He has a ton of great information and links to his full explanations for why he does each step the way he does. He uses UV led light strips to do his exposure with them just 1" from the board for about 49 seconds. I like his rational for more lights closer to the board - but I’m concerned I’m not getting the density in my artwork to use such a short exposure time. I may give in and order a strip of UV led’s though and try building an illuminator more like his.

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I know YouTuber Big Clive has conducted similar experiments and has a great deal to say about printer settings etc. I’d recommend his work (another Edinburgh man)

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Another youtuber I’m a fan of :slight_smile: Forgot he had done some PCB fab videos…I’ll have to dig them up.

Though the big problem is each brand of printer is different not to mention each model so what works on one doesn’t always help on another. And they change models every year anymore so a video from a year or two ago info isn’t always very helpful.

Side note - the actual PCB making process really does go quickly when it’s dialed in. That Yusynth one I made yesterday was really quick. It’s all this testing that’s taking me forever since I have to clean the mask off each test and then re-prep the board. On the upside it’s not consuming boards and the film and “developer” are both cheap. But the time to clean and relaminate a board, then expose it (when doing 10 minute plus exposures that adds up!) and the time to clean it off (It takes 30-60 minutes in high strength developer to strip the mask) is really slowing me down.

But…once I have a setup nailed down that’s consistent the actual board production is fairly quick. And the guy who wrote that site I linked in my last post did the math to work out the cost and it’s about $0.50 per board including all consumables once it works well. JLC is $2 for 5 boards or $0.40…and they’re nice professionally made boards with solder mask and silk and they’re dual sided…but…that doesn’t include shipping. Which is another $8 minimum in my experience. (they do have a cheaper slower mail service with no tracking…but I’ve been burned doing untracked mail from China so don’t consider that an option in these crazy times.) So it’s actually more like $10 for 5 boards or $2 per board. So $0.50 to etch your own is cheaper…especially if you only need 1 and not 5.

Then again as I said I’d not doing this to save money. I’m mostly doing it so I can test designs and not have to wait a week or two to have boards made. And because I don’t want to have to order 5 boards each time I need 1 then have to deal with selling 4 or adding to the waste.

Ok…latest board should be about ready for another exposure test!

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Woo Hoo! What a great end to the weekend!

It’s not 100% perfect…but it’s definitely my best board yet! The middle bottom has a few small bits of overexposure. And there’s one flaw in my layout which will have to be solved with a bodge wire (I found two ground sections are disconnected - no wonder I still had air wires. They weren’t coming from the ground pads…they were going TO the ground pads nearest the floating sections…but oddly enough the grounds on those sections didn’t have their own air wires.)

Let’s back track just a little to how this went.

Laminating the board was straight forward. I’m now doing this underwater in a shallow tub of cold water. I very gently wipe standing water off the outside of the board/film after removing it but VERY gently because I’m trying to leave a film of water between the UV film and the board right until it goes into the laminator. Since I’ve been using this method I’ve been getting flawless perfect sensitized boards. I use 4 passes through the laminator on it’s 5mil setting - I rotate the board 180 each time so the opposite edge gets fed in first - and then every other time I flip so the opposite face is up. I put the board between two sheets of copier paper while doing this for protection. The film is slightly larger than the board so it gets bonded to the sheet of copier paper. When it’s done I use a sharp knife cut cut the board free leaving the overhanging film bonded to the paper. I’ve been using the same carrier sheet of paper 2-3 times with no ill effects.

Once it was laminated I cut out a copy of my negative artwork and line it up with the board - then place it inside my contact printing frame. This goes under my exposure rig (which I’m still not 100% happy with) and with the new vellum I use a 3 minute exposure:

Note - here’s a shot of the old vellum on the right (staedtler brand I get at Staples) and the new (Strathmore laser translucent) on the left - you can really see the color/density difference:

The Strathmore vellum is much less opaque - but it’s also thicker and heavier and is more even in it’s coloration. But…I’m not sure it’s the best for this. It’s definitely better in my diffusor but I think I may go back to using the Staedtler vellum for the prints since it’s higher opacity seems to result in less leakage in the masked areas. I need to experiment here further still.

Anyway - after a 3 minute exposure the design is visible on the board but it’s VERY light. It goes into the developer (2 heaping 1/4 tsps of sodium carbonate in 1.5 cups of 95-100f water - made fresh so it’s at temp.) where I gently wipe it with a foam brush and the exposed areas darken and get more blue while the unexposed areas wash away. The developer will become milky as the unexposed film is washed away. You can rub it with your fingers and feel the design develop. The film is pretty tough but it’s best to be gentle still.

If you want to do any retouching to the film - now is the time to do it since it’s still somewhat soft.

Next I put it under the UV light again with the diffusor removed for 3 more minutes. This “sets” the remaining film and turns it dark opaque purple and the film gets very hard:

If I hadn’t been in a rush and had looked more closely I would have seen the slight imperfections near the bottom and cleaned them up before hardening the mask. They kind of jump out at me now. Oh well, the board still probed out OK despite them.

Then I took it outside and found I had forgot to cover my etchant yesterday and it was almost fully evaporated already. So I got out a different tray and made up a fresh batch - instead of 1:1 HCL/H2O2 I tried a 1:2 HCL:H2O2 this time. And promptly learned that the new tray had a crack in it.

After cleaning that up (thankfully the counters outside are due for replacement anyway!) I got out another tray and made up a second batch of etchant. This time my bottle my HCL is in broke even worse - but none spilled at least…it’s definitely time to get rid of that bottle and move what’s left into a better container! I put the shallow tray into a bigger tray with water I heated in the microwave for 2 minutes. It was around 100F I’d say but I didn’t actually measure it.

The board went in and I didn’t even bother adding any salt this time. The extra heat and H2O2 made for a much more aggressive etch and after just 2-3 minutes the board was completely etched:

I was REALLY impressed with how much more effective the etchant was with the higher H2O2 concentration and a bit more heat.

Then came the slow part - stripping off the mask. I almost bought some Lye at the store today…but I saw more and more writeups of people saying the only failed boards they’ve had were ones they used lye on. So I skipped it. Instead I re-use the developer but put it in the microwave for 1:30 and add 1 more teaspoon of sodium carbonate - then let it sit for 15-30 minutes. Come back and wipe it gently with the foam brush again and most of the mask will come right off if it didn’t already. If there’s still mask left I heat the solution back up for another minute and let the board sit for another 15-20 minutes.

Really stripping the mask when it’s done takes as long as the rest of the process combined.

And in the end I have a nearly perfect board:

Here’s some microscope shots of the biggest flaws I found:

This is actually a dent in the copper on the board. This board was sesitized, exposed, and cleaned several times and got a little scratched/dented in the process. But will still work.

This little dangler on the central trace shouldn’t be there. It was easily removed with an xacto knife just in case:
IMG180101-000315-000072F

This was the worst part of the board. Again - a bit of work with the xacto cleaned up the traces. The lack of a drill hole in the one pad will make drilling it slightly trickier…but not that big of a deal.

I’m really impressed with the detail in the logo from the schematics:

This whole thing is about 10mm tall. The actual logo itself is just 160px x 146px:

808_logo

And you can see most of the “poor detail” is from the original and the rest is from converting it to B&W loosing the greyscape info.

Ok - out to the drill press. And I may try adding a solder mask tonight - but I’m not going to solder this up until tomorrow. Don’t want to dig in on that this late in the day.

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So…how many of you laughed out loud when you read me say I wasn’t going to solder it tonight.

I really meant it. I swear.

But once I got it drilled I decided to go ahead and put the solder mask on:

And just look at that…how could I not start to build it? I figured I’d just put in the diodes…oh wait…I should do the top “trace” jumpers too. And well, resistors are easy…and there’s only a few caps…and just 5 transistors…how well do sockets fit…

Opps, I built the whole thing - and one bodge wire to fix that floating ground plane:

But…it’s after midnight and I I’m not staying up any later to wire up pots and jacks…I haven’t even designed a panel for it yet. Which is a bummer because now I can’t let it print overnight and have it ready when I wake up (and no I’m NOT going to do that right now…it will have to wait for tomorrow.)

I’m dying to see/hear if it works. I think it will. I hope it will. Or at least that it fail spectacularly if it doesn’t :smiley:

I’m glad to report though that the solder mask did seem to work as intended. Though it’s not the greatest solder mask. I also got a tube of actual UV curable paint on solder mask to try but that just seems messy and more trouble than I wanted to deal with tonight. I have a board and I want to build it not mess with experimental coatings :smiley:

I did forget what a pain it is to build without a silkscreen. But I used the interactive BOM generator to make an interactive BOM and that helped a lot:

It’s really slick. As you click on the rows in the BOM it highlights the parts on the silk and shows you which you need to solder. Made it much easier to live without a silk…with a silk it would have made assembly SUPER easy.

Hopefully tomorrow evening I’ll have it wired up and making some thumps!

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Finished wiring it up:

And made mistake of putting knobs on before even testing it.

Nothing…not even an spectacular failure.

Found another disconnected ground pour and added a jumper for it. But no difference.

With no power to it I can hear the pulses I’m feeding to the trigger input come out very quietly. But add power and it goes silent.

Wishing I hadn’t added the solder mask now since it’s going to make tracing things out and probing more difficult.

Not sure if there’s a mistake in my schematic (I don’t see one) or my layout (I don’t see one) or if I screwed up in building…

Probably going to set it aside for a day or two and come back with a fresh eye.

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Massive fan of molex but am rarely lucky with them when soldering to home etched boards due to the physical forces applied to the delicate traces. I guess it could be the same for your power socket. It’s where id start. Do take a break though if only to let the rest catch up.
Btw
I have fallen for your panel fabrication method and am setting up my 3d printer to test font and pattern thickness.

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These are actually JST-XH which are a bit smaller than molex…but still not overly friendly to plug/unplug. I have confirmed power. and the way it gets quieter when I plug in power also seems to confirm that power is doing something at least.

I look forward to seeing how yours come out! I use 3mm thick panels with 0.8mm deep embossing for the letters. I stick with Impact for the font since it’s blockiness helps it print well at the relatively low resolution available. It’s one of the few fonts I found that I can get to print well.

Definitely start with some small tests first. When I first tried this to label a case for another project I did a bunch of small 3mm tall tests just big enough to fit a word or two so they could print quickly and I could see how various fonts looked. The bigger you can print the more fonts look ok. Another trick is to look for engraving or plotting fonts since they’re designed to work with limited resolution. A search for engraving fonts will probably find some options.

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Brilliant advice. Many thanks. I work VERY slowly so don’t expect updates soon. I did wonder if you could use your black font colour to make cowls for your LEDs to fit into with a tiny hole or plate colour inlay? Then you could make shapes that light up. Just a thought.

It could probably work. I did a test with one of my blue LED’s behind the while and you could see it…but it was quite a bit dimmer than I was hoping for - then again I kind of like my lights TOO bright. Last night my daughter finally showed a bit of interest in the modular and agreed to help me test the kick (so of course if fails by doing NOTHING!) and when we were done she looked up right into some of the LED’s on my 1183 which are some of the brightest on the whole setup and called out “My eyes! I’m blind!” :laughing:

Just dragged the scope over to the modular (which is a bigger pain than it should be due to the lack of power outlets in this room) and did some probing.

Good news - the module is mostly working how it should. I’m actaully seeing a good looking waveform at the output of U1A and adjusting the pitch and decay controls I can see it react as expected.

And tone seems to make a small difference. But I seem to be loosing the signal before it gets to pin 9 of the TL074 (U1C) so it seems that something in the level/tone/clipper parts of the circuit is not happy.

I’m getting whiplash figuring this out though. My computer with the schematic and slikscreen to help me find my way on the board is on the other side of the room so I have to keep turning around between the computer and the modular trying to figure out where to look next and what I’m seeing :smiley:

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Whiplash … I hear you. I have to be very careful as a bad layout can dramatically shorten my work time.
Recently a friend gave me a camera lucida which I’ve used to mark out and copy stripboard layouts from screen to actual board and im thinking that you could use something like this to look at the scope trace while looking at the circuit. Overkill but so cool.

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Nice, I actually backed NeoLucida when they were on Kickstarter a few years ago :slight_smile: Got two of their prisms. One is still tucked away and the other is in a 3D printed eyepiece. But it’s a bit small for this :smiley:

So looking at my board layout I’m still a bit nervous about the two mystery air wires I wasn’t able to resolve:

The one off C7 particularly concerns me since it seems to be in the area of the circuit (tone/level) where I’m loosing my signal.

But…I don’t think those air wires are indicating those PADS aren’t connected. I think the other end of them is the issue and they’re indicating a copper ground pour that isn’t connected. Since you can see C7 right next to the 808 logo has a nice big clear path to ground Under R21 which leads right to the main ground pins. And I know I probed that pad out before soldering things (and it still has continuity though with the board populated that’s less helpful of a confirmation.)

But the other end of it is leading to a copper pour Which provides ground for C11 as well as C9 and grounded pads on U1 And which is isolated and needed a jumper. I added a bodge wire from U1 pin 5 straight to ground…but it wasn’t there the first time I powered things up. I know it’s not good to leave pins floating on an op-amp but as robust as TL074’s are I woudln’t think it would damage it…just lead to instability and unpredictable behavior.

The other air wire coming off D2 is connecting to another floating ground pour…which I had added a bodge wire for initially since I spotted that one. There I added a wire from the ground side of R9 to the ground side of C3. And that one was installed before I powered anything up.

Getting closer here. It definitely seems to be something with unit 3 of the TL074 down there on pins 8/9/10.

Oh…wait…

It’s ALIVE!

I found a bad trace. More details in a few. Gotta remount the board and get this guy installed.

I’m not getting the really growling low bass that Kristian did in his MIAW video…but…I can look into that still. Need to get this cleaned up so I can play with it a big more!

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Correct, the non-pad ends of those rats nest lines is where the problem lies. Which of course wouldn’t exist in a 2-layer board…

It looks to me as though if you moved the hole above C6 a little to the right and connected the left side of R14 to D2 instead of C4 that would de-isolate both pours.

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Ok. I think I know what happened. Bad drilling :frowning: (which should be getting better soon thanks to another project I started…more on that in a moment.)

Here’s the trace that was the problem:
image

That’s the best photo I have of it after drilling but before soldering.

I couldn’t see anything wrong with it just looking at it. There was a drop of rosin on it that looked like it may have been the trace cut…but it was just a funky reflection I’m pretty sure.

Here’s the post-soldering microscope view of what I found:

That trace was bad. I had signal on the pad on the right…but none on the pad on the left. Got out the multimeter and confirmed - no continuity.

I think the trace just coming off the right pad broke. My drill was pretty close to the trace there so it was weakened. I added a bodge wire between these two and it came alive.

I never would have figured this out without the scope to trace the signals. And in less time than my old analog scope (I actually have two 465’s but one is a parts doner and the other is a bit flaky - they were a gift from a friend when he upgraded about 10 years ago) would have taken to warm up :smiley: I also have a little Tek 222 which I used way more than my big analog scope but that thing is so small and low resolution it’s kind of a pain to use. The Rigol DS1054 is “just right” as far as size so it gets used way more than either of my old scopes did. So glad I bought it.

So it works! Just took one more bodge wire:

It actually sounds better with a trigger from my 1145 than my quick and dirty “Roland 100M” (ha!) LFO. Must not like the shape of the wave off the quick and dirty LFO as much. But it’s a bit late to be making enough noise to record it right now.

Oh, and that other project? Working on a mini drill press:

Found this for $30 on amazon and it had decent reviews. Tested it out and it actually seems to have significantly less runout than my “good” drill press. And it’s a lot quieter…and takes up less space. And sits at a more comfortable height.

The rest of the press is printing. But I have to wait a day or two for the correct sized smooth rods that it runs on. So won’t have it built until this weekend.

But so hyped to have this working! Itching to do another now :smiley: Get more practice at routing…

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Yeah, the last few times I did a board they were 2 and 4 layer boards (I didn’t layout the 4 layer board just made some suggestions on a few tweaks on that one!) it’s been awhile since I dealt with single sided. I do plan on stepping up my game to do dual sided eventually - but want to make sure I’ve got my system dialed in for single sided before I add that layer of complication!

Great eye, and yes those tweaks solve it. I actually had R14 going to D2 originally and moved it to try and avoid the top layer jumper above D2. I can probably shift a few things around a bit more and still get rid of that. Kicad’s attempt to auto position the trace actually made it seem like that wouldn’t work at first but I was able to get it to:

As for the hole above C6…I can’t believe I didn’t spot that! Well, if I had realized the air wires were indicating the pours being disconnected and not the pads I might have :smiley:

And there…twisting Q5 eliminates that jumper above D2:

But pretty sure there’s no avoiding the need for the other 5 jumpers. I’d love to be wrong…but I just don’t see a way.

Still a lot more that could be done to clean this up and make it prettier as well. But…it works so I’m happy :smiley:

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I’m not sure if its kicking around anywhere, but is there something somewhere that tells what is what on this boards outputs?

Hmm…I drew that one up before I found how to do labels.

But looking at the actual module:

On the left side starting at the top we have:

Center pin of rate pot
Triangle output
Right side of rate pot (looking at the pot face on)

And in the row of connections near the middle we have:
Left side of rate pot
Center of Range switch
Two sides of range switch.

But…it also looks like I have a wire not shown. The hole above C1 is the square output.

I also grabbed a ground connection off the right side of the power connector.

This was the 2nd module I built…and is a pretty jumbled layout. It’s one of the only ones I didn’t use connectors on. I’d go back and clean it up…but I’m not overly impressed by this LFO. It doesn’t go as low as I’d like and I haven’t got around to messing with it to see if I can get it to go lower and/or get better range out of it.

I’m thinking about doing a through hole version of this one: https://syinsi.com/projects/building-the-lfo/

Should be simple enough and looks like it gives a range more like I’m hoping for and a sine output which I’d like. (though looking at the schematic and comparing it to other sine converters I’ve seen it doesn’t look like it will be a very nice sine.)

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Heard back from Juanito saying he has no issues with me sharing my PCB layout of his schematic. So pushed everything to my git: https://github.com/jhitesma/Modular-Synth-Build/tree/main/808Kick

It’s all there, including files for my 3D printed panel. Hope someone else finds it helpful!

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Go on then, let’s hear it!

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I’ll try and get a recording this evening. Keep forgetting to before my daughters bedtime. But tonight’s a weekend so she gets to stay up a bit longer and I have more time to remember :wink:

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