SIMPLE DIY ENVELOPE 2.0 stripboard weirdness

So looking at the simple envelope stripboard, I’m a bit puzzled by the trigger input stage in the 2.0 layout. Here it is, with some annotations:

As drawn, R1 goes to ground, then there’s the 10n capacitor, then R2 in series with a diode to ground, and R3 to gate and on to R4 and a second diode.

R2 and a diode seems a bit weird — surely you want to get rid of the negative edges quickly? — so I thought the cap was drawn wrong and it should go to the second strip instead. That’ll give you a diode to ground which makes sense, but then you have R2 and R3 in series, which is weird,

And then I looked at the fartbox, which is supposedly the same circuit, but to get that circuit you have to move the capacitor and replace R3 with a wire… (i.e. diode to ground, 47k to gate). So two steps from weird to not weird? Weird.

Am I missing something here?

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When you lay it out, it starts to make sense, at least it works:

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A quickly drawn schematic:

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Actually, after some thinking, it seems that it only works because of the imperfect opamp input impedance (R5 on my schematic): that’s the only way to sink the current from the cap!
If it doesn’t work in real life, try this circuit instead:


Where the trig time is proportional to C1*R1.

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I think you missed the 100k to ground on the + input (forgot to mark that path in my annotation), otherwise your quickly drawn version looks good :+1:

With that in place, the discharge path would be R3+R4+100k = 300k for a time constant of 3 ms. I was more puzzled by the 47k, which felt a bit pointless, and it’s in a different location in the fartbox schematics:

If you change the cap location you get the 47k in the same place, but you then end up with three resistors in a series – get rid of one of them, add a 1M pullup, and you have the fartbox schematics.

But as your last example shows, as long as the overall structure is roughly right, you can shuffle things around and get a similar trigger-to-gate mechanism, so maybe I’m just being overly pedantic here :nerd_face:

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Ohh right, didn’t saw that sneaky resistor!

I guess that R37 is useful when you have negative voltage at GATEIN (to avoid short-circuits), but I don’t get the utility of R46?

By the way, the t=RC equation only applies when you’re comparing the cap voltage to 63% of the input voltage (t=3*RC for 95% and t=5*RC for 99%). And here, it’s compared to 18% of 12V, but as we are discharging the cap we can say it’s 100%-18%=82%, which is between RC and 2*RC. Here it doesn’t matter at all, but I often fall into that trap, so I thought it’s worth sharing it! (more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_constant#Time_constants_in_electrical_circuits )

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Looking at the component values again, all three interpretations in my first post look like slightly mutated versions of CGS24, discussed here:

(the wire going upwards is 100k to +15V)

Except that it’s used for trigger to gate here, not gate to trigger :slight_smile:

(But all these circuits are crazy imprecise, since they depend on the trigger voltage, which isn’t exactly standardized. See here for a bit more on that.)

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Ok here I really don’t get the functional utility of the 47k resistor!

The only thing I can think of is to lower the input voltage, as the LM358 doesn’t seem to have rail-to-rail input…

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Yeah, it keeps the voltage away from the upper rail in case someone goes all in and uses +15V signals (which is what this circuit outputs, btw). The LM358 can handle 0 V just fine, but needs a 1.5-2.0 V margin to the positive rail.

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