Power supply protection

Hey everyone!

I’m working on a small power supply to use on the bench or in very small cases and I’m unsure about what type of fuse and diode I should use for protection.

The power supply is very similar to the Befaco ChikiPower and based on a DKM10A-12 converter. The datasheet recommends to use a “4A delay time" fuse. First of all, I’m not sure, whether this is referring to the trip current or the hold current? Second of all, I was wondering if 4A is not too big a value either way. The maximum current draw of the converter is just short of 1A, so why would I want the fuse to trip only at 4A or even later?

With the diode I’m not sure either: Can I just use a standard Schottky diode I would also use as reverse voltage protection on my modules. Like 1N5819 or 1N4001?

Polyfuses aren’t quite like a standard fuse, and so you can’t really treat them as such.

Firstly, as the current increases from zero, a polyfuse will add a small series resistance to the path that will grow slowly as the current goes up, more so than a standard wire fuse of the same rating does. Once it reaches the trip point, they go very high resistance (not quite the open circuit of a wire fuse). This is because the way they work is based on the internal energy of a compound (mainly temperature energy caused by the passage of current through the compound) in between the two ends of the polyfuse.

In operation, it takes time for the internal temp to build up, and also for it to cool down, so polyfuses have a natural delay curve on trip and restoration times. As well as this, they can produce hysteresis effects in their series resistance as the circuit current changes over time. The delay and series resistance will depend on the rating of the polyfuse and how much current is being drawn. This delay is usually bigger as the current rating of the polyfuse goes up.

In addition, if the standard circuit current is very close to the trip current, then the polyfuse doesn’t require much excess energy to trip. This can lead to flaky operation (eg: external heat sources/sinks biasing the temp change and causing it to trip at lower or higher currents respectively), or issues due to the small but consistent voltage drop across the polyfuse. Specifically, extra cooling can make some situations worse, due to the internals of the polyfuse getting even more energy dense than they normally would in a trip situation, or by shortening the time it takes to restore on a fault and constantly putting the power supply under the high current load till it trips again.

I am pretty sure the main reason for that fuse is if there is an internal fault in the module, or the power supply is connected backwards (as the diode will be close to a short). Of course, if the power supply will never be capable of feeding that much (eg: it’s internally limited to 2A), it’s unlikely to ever trip, which IMO is a real problem with the design if it’s expected to do that and could lead to stress on the power supply. As such, you might be better off with a standard wire fuse that is closer to the max current draw, but still within the power output of the input power supply.

eg: If the supply can give you 2A, but the expected input max current is about 1A, then a 2A fuse would most likely be fine.

FWIW: I try and avoid polyfuses in my electronics designs, because while they do avoid the need for replacing a physical fuse, there are a large number of factors you need to take into consideration when properly implementing them into your circuit. I see a lot of designs where the polyfuse is treated as a direct replacement for a standard wire fuse, which IMO is a good indication that the designer doesn’t understand how a polyfuse works. In most cases it’s not too bad, but every now and again you come across a case where it’s a real problem just waiting to happen. I don’t think that’s as much the case here, but it does illustrate that you need to keep an eye out for it.

Polyfuses are quite useful in certain situations, but while they contain “fuse” in their name, you simply can’t treat them like an actual wire fuse.

As for the diode, a 1N400x series diode will be perfectly fine for reverse polarity protection in this setup.

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1N400x are not Schottky diodes, they’re regular silicon rectifiers.

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Thanks for your detailed response! I think for convenience and as the fuse is just adding an extra level of safety (in addition to the ones implemented in the power-adapter and the converter-module) I’d still opt for a resettable fuse.

By 2A you mean the trip current I suppose?

I’ve read, that the hold current for ptc fuses is defined as the current the fuse can sustain for 4 hours without tripping. So I would probably want the hold current to be somewhat higher than the actual current draw of the converter-module to allow for flawless operation over a longer period of time. Adding some more headroom for higher ambient temperatures, I think I would go for roughly 1.5A hold current, which would (according to some datasheets I’ve looked into) typically translate to somewhat around 2.5A - 3A trip current. Still considerably lower thresholds then what the datasheet suggests. I plan on using a 12V, 2A power adapter.

The voltage drop induced by the ptc fuse would not be much of a problem I think, since the converter accepts an input voltage in the range of 9V-18V.

Thanks for clarification!

Another potential gotcha with polyfuses
They have a resistance of just under one ohm, so there is a small voltage drop depending on the ratio with the load resistance - if more current is passed the supplied voltage will reduce slightly.
So you might have an LED flashing merrily on one of your modules (many of my modules) varying the current by say 20mA which causes a voltage fluctuation of a few millivolts.
And that can be enough to cause an audible pitch wobble from your VCOs.

I improved such a situation in my first PSU by putting polyfuses before the voltage regulator.

And in subsequent PSUs (eg POWER – ShedSynth) I didn’t use polyfuses and I was able to provide a second clean +12V supply for sensitive modules such as VCOs.

Polyfuses are still useful - I always use this gadget to power new modules under development:


Veroboard strips run long-ways with cuts under the polyfuses, input is ribbon-cable to 10-way on right, output is ribbon cable from 16-way in middle or the pins or the terminal block, LEDs to show you when you’ve shorted something.

I hope some of that might help.

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First off, I was referring to using standard wire fuses, not polyfuses (ie: replacing the polyfuse with a normal wire fuse).

Secondly, I was referring to the max current your power supply can provide. If the power supply cannot provide the current required to trip the fuse (whether a wire fuse or a polyfuse), then the fuse will NEVER TRIP, unless the fault condition is caused by the power supply providing more current than it can.

Particularly, with most switch mode supplies, they have inbuilt protection and limit the current to a max output rating. When the current exceeds this rating, they either reduce the output voltage to stop it exceeding that current limit, or they will simply switch the output off and require the power supply to be powered off and on before they’ll work again. Some may even have a wire fuse inside.

There is a limit to how much current you can pull out of any supply. It’s not really useful having a fuse/polyfuse that needs such a high trip (or even hold) current compared to what the supply can provide, since if it cannot actually trip, then it in essence doesn’t provide any protection at all.

The example circuit for that module seems to assume that the input power supply provides a lot more current than you need to supply it. I suspect that a lot of these modules are designed for use with batteries, which will supply a lot more current in a fault situation.

eg: In this case, that power supply with that polyfuse would work quite well with any sort of 12V battery or similar voltage battery pack as the supply input, simply because if the module pulled too high a current, the battery would be able to supply the current needed to make the polyfuse trip.

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As I wrote above, I fear that lower hold/trip currents of a polyfuse might interfere with the normal operation of the module. And while in this configuration the fuse wouldn’t add an extra layer of protection while I’m using it, this design will potentially (and very likely) be used by others as well, who might choose to use power-adapters which deliver more current or even batteries. I somehow fail to see why you consider it such a big problem if the fuse never trips, while the device is operated in such a way, that there is no need for it to trip.. In my mind protective measures should take into account the worst case, not the ideal case.

This brings me back to my original question.. I’m still wondering why the manufacturer would choose to recommend a 4A fuse in the first place, while the converter module draws a maximum of 1A. I guess I’ll stick to my assumption, that if this is the manufacturers recommendation, the module will handle lower over-currents fine by itself..

I’m definitely grateful for all your input and will give the matter some more thought until I place my next PCB order

So I went over the data sheet again (specifically https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/DKM10/SKM10,DKM10-spec.pdf ), and I’ll try and articulate the reasoning that they’re specifying a 4A time delay fuse.

  1. Nowhere does it mention polyfuses. As I mentioned, polyfuses are a different beast to a simple wire fuse, and in most cases you cannot simply just replace one with another and expect things to be the same. In some ways they are similar, but in others, they can be very different. This is why I brought it up initially, as it’s quite easy to get tripped up. That said, it does recommend delay type fuses (which polyfuses are more similar to than a say a fast blow wire fuse), which means they expect it to draw more current in certain “worst case” conditions. They don’t seem to mention any specific fuses (specs or part numbers), and certain information isn’t spelled out in the data sheet (see next points) which would make the details to figure this out more apparent.
  2. The datasheet mentions specifically under Protection → Overload that it will supply up to 140% of the rated output power. This means that if there’s a higher than normal current draw on the output, the unit will supply at least 140% of the rated power at that point. As such, it needs to be able to draw more input current to do this. Using a higher rated fuse will cover that extra current draw. The fact it doesn’t mention any specific max values is a lack of detail issue in the data sheet, particularly the lack on how long the module will supply an output when in an overloaded condition, and therefore how long it would need to draw more current.
  3. The input voltage range on the modules is 9-18V. The values for max current are based on a 12V input with a conversion efficiency of 87% typical (for the +/-12V module). If you look at the table in the datasheet, point 1 specifically states “All parameters are specified at normal input (E:5Vdc, A:12Vdc, B:24Vdc, C:48Vdc), rated load, 25°C 70% RH ambient”. In essence, they are the typical values (maximums and minimums) when the above parameters are met. At values outside those parameters, the values will change. With lower input voltages (eg: 9V input), that max input current has to go up, otherwise you would not be able to draw the max rated output current. See more below, but once again, I think the datasheet is somewhat lacking here in not explicitly pointing this out (even at the very least by providing input voltage vs input current or even input voltage vs conversion efficiency graphs somewhere so the ratings can be estimated for various conditions).

So, lets work through all this. Remember that we’re considering all the worst case conditions, as the datasheet suggests that the module will perform (at least for some duration) under those conditions. Anything beyond those worst case conditions is what would be classed as a fault, and would be when a fuse needs to kick in, at least from the module designers perspective. There will be overhead allowed as well, simply to cover component tolerances.

As the module is converting voltages, what matters is the overall power draw (we’ll convert this back to current in the end). The max output current is 416mA per output supply rail. That means the max power required is about twice the current times the output supply voltage. So that’s 2 x 0.416A x 12V, which gives you 9.984W. As the module is only 87% efficient typically (more on this later), this means that under full load it will typically draw 11.476W from the supply. This roughly matches the input current of 0.957A when the input voltage is at 12V.

Now, the module, in a overload condition can handle up to 140% of it’s output power. That takes the input max power up to 16.066W at peak before the modules overload protection cuts in.

As per the data sheet, those values are typical values. The real values may be larger. Unfortunately, as mentioned, it’s not quite laid out in the datasheet how things change when you go outside those values, so you usually need to expect a worst case. One example is that the 12V module shutdown input voltage is 8V. This means that if it’s pulling 16.066W at 8V (just before the module wants to shut down), the matching current could be as high as 2A (2.008A from the calculations I did).

All the above also assumes that the module is operating at 87% efficiency, which definitely won’t be the case in extreme operating conditions. If we instead assume 80% (I’m estimating, based on the lowest typical value in the table being 81% - that is just a guess and I suspect it’s even lower than that), then this pushes everything up. Going though the numbers again, that puts the absolute max power at 17.472W, which at 8V is 2.184A. If the efficiency drops to as low as 60%, then that takes the power to 23.296W, which at 8V is 2.912A. This is quite close to 3A, so it may even be worse than that in certain conditions.

I will also note that the input current values we used are for the +/-12V module. The fuse values in the datasheet are independent of the output voltage, so they obviously allow for all the module configurations. Specifically, the +/-5V module actually draws slightly more input current (0.985A), so this would push some of the values higher still, possibly just over the 3A mark at a peak. The next convenient value is 4A, so this is probably where the fuse value comes from and gives some further leeway for any component tolerances.

The module is supposed to be able to recover from this sort of situation as long as those values aren’t exceeded. This means that short bursts of higher input current could be expected when such a condition occurs very close to all the recommended values (ie: just short of reaching them). While this is obviously where the need for a time delay fuse comes from, the fact it’s not stated how long it can continue to work in this mode, nor is a recommended fuse type listed (ie: so we could estimate things ourselves based on it’s specs), is quite annoying, as it leaves a lot of uncertainty.

In addition, the fuse also provides protection for the power supply (and the tracks on your circuit board) if the module fails with an internal short, so long as the supply can produce the current needed for the appropriate time to trip the fuse. In the case of a reversed input voltage, a diode across the module input (as per the circuit you show in the original post) provides close to a short circuit across the module, allowing the fuse to work to protect things in the same manner. In the reversed voltage case, you need to consider how long the diode will pass the needed current, before the diode might fail. If it fails before the fuse trips, then you most likely need to reconsider what diode you are using.

FWIW: A 1N400x series diode should handle a peak current spike of 30A, but only for a very short time (8.3ms, since it’s designed really for rectifying AC). The normal max current rating is 1A. As such, with a time delay fuse, this may not be long enough for the fuse to trip. That said, it’s likely that if the diode fails, it will fail short (though not guaranteed). A 1N5819 is fairly similar, though I suspect it might fare slightly better.

If that’s not possible (for whatever reason, be it cost, availability, size constraints, etc), then you need to reconsider if the extremes that are assumed above are worth handing, or if you need to adjust things accordingly to suit your application. You may decide that handling the reverse voltage protection scenario is much more necessary than handling output overloads and low voltages, in which case you may not need as high a fuse value on the input.

All this said, this is just me taking the values from the data sheet, assuming the worst possible conditions (at least, the ones I can see) that the module is supposed to be able to handle before it shuts down, making some basic assumptions, and then working with them. Only you can determine if you need to take them into consideration.

If there’s an application data sheet (ie: a guide on how to implement the module in a design, rather than just it’s specifications), then it might answer some of these questions. I did look for one but did not find it on the MeanWell site. Beyond this, I suspect the only way you’d get a bulletproof answer on this would be to reach out to an engineer at MeanWell. That said, they may just recycle the rote answer from the data sheet.

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Excellent explanation. Key takeaways for the OP:

  1. The datasheet calls for a delay time fuse. A polyfuse is not an appropriate substitute.
  2. Your 2A wall wart may well be incapable of supplying the current necessary to blow a 4A fuse. If the DKM were to fail, and the fuse did not blow, this could result in a situation where your modules (or those of someone using your design) continue to receive unregulated power, potentially causing extensive damage.

A 2A, slow blow, M205 fuse is probably a reasonable thing to use in your design. Cheap, easy to source, easy to replace, and your 2A power supply will be able to blow it. If that amount of current is being drawn for longer than the delay time of the fuse, then there is a problem downstream that warrants your attention. If you decide that you want to use a higher value fuse in order to give the DKM more room to deal with a fault (eg 2.5A), check that your power supply can blow it first (do this safely using several appropriately-sized 10W load resistors in parallel). Otherwise, if the DKM fails, your modules could be protecting the fuse, which is clearly not the desired outcome!

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Just got this made using a few different schematics that have the DKE15A-12 as a reference. None of the schematics I found contained any fuses which has me questioning if it’s needed.

I also made a psu on stripboard on the cheap with a DKM10E-12. Used the MMI usb power supply schematic as reference. Also no fuse.

Am I doing something wrong?

Hello,

Probably because the DKM includes a bunch of internal protection mechanisms. From the datasheet:

Cheers

Hmm, compare the DKE datasheet:

image
image

I don’t see any such 30 second limit on the DKM datasheet.

Anyway, both datasheets say a fuse is recommended.

I’ve never been hit by lightning, but I know someone that has been. She doesn’t go outside during storms any more.

Let’s say that the modules you connect draw more current than the 625mA that the DKE is rated for. Say 1A. The DKE will probably continue to supply power, but it will be operating right at it’s limits, so the likelihood of failure increases. If it fails, bad things could happen. A slow blow fuse won’t offer much protection for ICs – they will probably go up in smoke immediately, but it might protect circuit boards, so that the modules can be repaired, and more importantly, it will stop supplying power to a faulty appliance.

Why not just put something like this next to your power inlet?

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Thats a good call, seems pretty easy to add before the psu and I can probably mount it to the case for convenience.

Crazy how so many manufacturers don’t fuse protect their stuff.

I built a little USB to -/+12v unit using the ‘stupid power’ design shared by Tom Whitwell (music thing modular) on github, It doesnt have any external fuses, and it does some kind of soft reset whenever I plug in something thats broken.
I wouldnt say it wouldnt benefit from one though. The design uses a much cheaper DC/DC block than the meanwell one here, so maybe with a look if you are just wanting to test a single module.

Well, it does say in the README:

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after AO’s scolding, I think I should look at adding a fuse and diode to my shoddy power solution, did you finalise your schematic? @Softek

Sorry for my late reply! The schematic you see above is the final schematic. Since this power supply is all about size, I decided to go ahead with the PTC fuse. I used a 1.35A fuse in combination with a 1N5819 diode and will use it with a 12V wall wart adapter capable of tripping the fuse in a fault condition.

I’ve looked up how manufacturers like Befaco or Erica synths construed similar power supplies and think it can’t be all that wrong if they do it the same way. E.g. for their EDU series case Erica Synths uses a 3A PTC fuse, a 1N5819 diode and a similar dc/dc converter module in the same configuration, powered by a 1A DC wall wart.

Already thinking about building a bigger supply though, for which I would probably use a wire fuse to take into account the considerations from Cefiar and others in this thread

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I love how compact that is, looks awesome!

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