Haven’t seen their latest product, I take it? The Behringer Swing, released yesterday, “kinda” resembles the Arturia Keystep …
B.t.w. I have had 2 mixers by Behringer for more than 20 years now wthout a problem, and more recently added a midi interface and 3 of their analog mono synths. Great stuff!
I’ve looked at the video for the Swing and in my opinion it (or the Arturia KeyStep) would simply duplicate what I already have access to (MIDI keyboards, sequencers and the like) because of my son’s MIDI keyboard collecting bug. This controller, BCF2000, is more like a miniature mixing desk. It’s an interactive control surface.
Incidentally while we’re on the Swing, I looked at MuffWiggler and to read the thread there you’d think Uli had murdered somebody. I’ve heard about the KeyStep and it’s my impression that it’s a very cheap MIDI keyboard with a built-in sequencer. Is there some truly amazing piece of intellectual property here, that I’m not seeing?
The Muffwiggler thread is hard to find actually. It’s called “Behringer Beystep!” which is not the search term I thought of using at first.
Amazing, no, but the features, controls layout, and user interface appear from what I’ve seen to be nearly identical.
So a bit like somebody producing a smartphone with hardware and user interface spookily like Apple’s phone. Like every smartphone designer on the market.
Nah, more similarity than that.
The Arturia logo is covered with a bit of Dymo tape saying “Behringer?” I mean, unless they’ve actually ripped off the code of a proprietary ROM I don’t see the problem. You probably can’t patent the kind of sequencer that’s in the Keystep, and best of luck trying to patent a keyboard with sequencer controls on the top surface as an “invention.”
Probably no legal transgressions, no, but is anyone alleging that? Basically Behringer has copied just about to the limit of what it can legally copy, but not beyond.
Which is not tantamount to murder, of course.
As I said, I think it’s unfortunate they’re not devoting more effort to original designs — they’ve proved they can do that. The in-your-face cloning of current designs I think is rather tacky. But nothing to raise a lynch mob over.
Sometimes a design works well enough. We use the ridiculous qwerty/azerty/qwertz typewriter keyboard layout on our computer keyboards and even touch screens because, as it turns out, using more efficient or more rational layouts never made enough of a difference to overcome consumer resistance to learning a new layout. Modern cars nearly all have the same driver controls because innovation there isn’t just a waste of design effort, it can be downright dangerous.
Mere variation of a workable tool design for the sake of it will often lead to a poorer design, simply because the effectiveness of a tool depends very much on the wielder’s experience and skill with the tool. It’s simply perverse to complain that one good tool looks and works very much like one it’s obviously copied from.
@Bitnik I dont think i would blame anyone for having bought or to Behringer gear before. I dont think this specific design is what has people concerned. I was on the camp of “clones of old unavailable synths are fine” because i can get behind that. Then they began to clone things that have been remade by the ones with the original intellectual property and I was thinking it was sus, but whatever. Now they are VERY CLEARLY cloning contemporary gear. The problem with this is why would any company put forth the money to R&D something if its just going to be ripped off. This is very clearly a testing of what they can get away with. People suspected this, and they didnt disappoint. Your argument would work if their prior behavior and lawsuits didnt make this stink like the south end of a north-bound skunk.
Combine this with their other distasteful actions and I personally will be voting with my wallet on this.
I don’t see any rip off here. If I go into Aldi or Tesco and find that they’re selling own brand versions of top selling brand items I don’t feel uneasy. Why should low end consumer electronics be any different? No, actually it’s weirder than that, because nobody minds that toasters and microwaves and radios and stereos are substantially interchangeable and can be used without studying a manual. Why should consumer electronic instruments be any different?
This isn’t a defence of any company. I just don’t see copying good design as a uniquely bad thing when it happens in musical instruments while it’s obviously acceptable elsewhere. As a buyer I think it’s a great thing to see good design principles used as widely as possible.
They could have at least make the keys full size.
Like the Tesla tablet control panel which prevents you from seeing anything, including the speed you’re going at, when the sun is low behind you.
While this is true in theory, in this particular case, the KeyStep isn’t exactly rocket science. There is no real genius in its design and Behringer had to put the exact same effort in creating the Swing.
Given how close together the two products came out, there are pretty good chances that Behringer had started working on the Swing before the KeyStep was even released, they probably just tweaked its look when the KeyStep came out.
EDIT: I got confused by a September 2020 press release for the KeyStep 37. As pointed out by @Caustic below, the KeyStep clearly significantly predates the Swing.
Yeah that cork sniffer stuff is in poor taste.
Also, Rich, I checked the prices new prices and the b gear is way cheaper new compared to thr competion (oddysey, cat, boog etc). but I still reckon their eurorack modules are overpriced in comparison - maybe that’s just in Australia.
The quality of my odyssey, imo, is good - but not when compared to the sub phatty. But then again I’m told that arp gear from the odyssey era was pretty ropey too.
I don’t know. I like em both - but the moog ivories and knobs just feel better under the fingers! Maybe I should stick with used gear.
My point isn’t whether or not the KeyStep is a novel device, or even whether or not this is a blatant copy. The point is that this just seems to me like the next step for them.
The keystep is not new or very old, it came out in 2016.
I beg to differ, point to another midi controller with a polyphonic sequencer, an arp, CV and MIDI thru capabilities and aftertouch that even approaches the build quality even close to this cost. Its possible, but im not aware of any.
There is a reason these are so popular.
The behringer swing? P:
Well that means you may have makings of a competent market analyst. I think your point seems to be that Behringer copies are interesting to you when they’re remakes of ancient gear, but you don’t like it when they compete in the contemporary mass market by cleverly copying designs that everybody wants. Well that’s you. You probably don’t mind buying copies of other contemporary designs, I’d guess. There are more Les Paul copies around than Gibson ever sold of the original. Was every personal stereo you ever bought a Sony brand Walkman? Do you feel uncomfortable with the existence of companies that produce close copies of popular designs?
Hand built from the best materials. Consumer engineering targets a price point to maximise profit over the distribution cycle. A Ford Focus will get you there in comfort, but a Rolls Royce will make you feel like a VIP.
Look, that button in the top left, it’s totally different !
I think the brief was “same thing but it should look cheaper and have a silly name”
